Dozens: Overall Update + Community Changes

Just want to make sure you got the bit where we said not only do you get your bonds back, you also get any unpaid interest back alongside the principal refund. No party poop - just partyyy. :laughing:


These are beautiful.

Build these please.


Frame this someone! He is a hard one to please (unfortunately, always with good reason!) :slight_smile:

PS: @Peter happy to inform build started a few sprints back - its just sequencing launches that depends on the runway but we definitely are not wasting any months that we live on. Tech build and partners will continue to be more than half our costs - balance of overheads and ‘cost to serve’ due to small ops and management team size is industry leading at this point too, despite having a call in option from day one.


Sad to see Rob go, hope he goes on to new and exciting things.

Does this imply the 1% product will only be available for paying customers?


Two questions!

Will you be able to spend directly from currency pockets ala Revolut

What are the timescales on the introduction of this UI?

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Oh no, I’ve got myself a reputation!

More seriously, I can’t quite see how these will hang together, but two serious and extremely positive initial reactions:

  • The Zen idea is an excellent find. And is what’s missing from many (most/all?) of the apps I use. I want my money to calm me.

  • You’ve broken out of the standard design of transaction list + n tabs at the bottom. I think that will both differentiate and give you much more flexibility. Indeed, whilst more calming, it immediately looks more powerful.

And I’m really thrilled you’ve taken to heart all of our various feedback. We haven’t used this yet, of course, but it looks brilliant.


I assume the business accounts and personal accounts whilst linked and both visible within the app will remain separate for accounting purposes so the business black will be separate from the personal black etc.

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Yes indeed the 1% product will be part of the Dozens black subscription. For a small monthly commitment, we’re committing to give those on board the best offering we can to help them manage their whole financial life.


Funnily enough, it’s hard to find any reference of calm looking apps! Even the Calm app itself has a lot going on.

Money is such a foundation for all aspects of life that if you don’t feel in control of your financial situation, whatever it is, it can be really distressing. So ‘calm & controlled’ is so important. Particularly for Dozens – with so much in the app, it needs to be calm to not be overwhelming.

Plus there’s a concept in behavioural science that to be open to new ideas… you first need to feel calm. As opening people up to the idea of investing is a key part of our strategy, we knew that making sure they first felt calm and in control was important.

Yes! We had to break free from the typical bottom nav to accommodate the range of products and services. It’s going to interesting to see whether the burger menu or search button will be more popular, and who with.

Of course – keep it coming! I’ll be posting more in future about specific flows, so there’ll be more opportunities to input coming up.


Yes definitely. Simple to navigate between, but completely separate.


Yes absolutely… that’s the only way this feature makes sense I think, ie as an FX savings tool.

You know a holiday is coming up, start building up those Euro reserves so you are not a rate taker. In my vision, it then gets limit orders (convert from £ to € if rate hits X) and then structured products (dual currency deposits - very prevalent in Asia - convert from £ to € if rate hits X else earn Y% interest in £s) on top.

The dynamic here is that Visa then effectively pass the FX margin to us, so we have to go hand in hand with them on this, and potentially start with just € and $ first.

Wrt timelines, lot depends on funding again - with increased tech spend as a short term spike, there’s no other dependencies that stop us from launching an entire new app with Biz and Black within six months. But without assured funding, we will keep building iteratively every month and then tactically decide launch schedules.


I’m sure a bunch of us would be really happy to help test early versions - even if we still need to use the main app to manage real money.

Just an offer - and certainly no obligation - I know that it might be difficult to do iterative user-based testing otherwise if you’re working month on month…


Am so, so glad to read your positive comments and the eagerness to use the new products. Has a nice Apple demo feel to it - and on the occasion of the tenth death anniversary of the Master, it’s only fitting.

Running a startup - especially a twice regulated one - takes its toll. But every time a fan speaks up for what we stand for, praises Track, or is eager to try what we have been working so hard on, it absolutely fills me with endless energy! :)) Rest assured, winddown or not, am last man standing on this ship… there’s still lots more to do that remains just as exciting.

As I always tell the team, we cannot control funding - but IF we got that through, we MUST deliver an exciting, game changing proposition. And with our consumers budgeting and saving, learning to invest, getting access to new age private banking type alternatives and lombard lending type products AND our businesses always being on top of their spends and cash flow forecasts that completes the circle of money where individuals save, businesses grow, employ more and cause more savings. We first spoke about this publicly in our first Seedrs video back in April 2019, and am so proud of this team for not having moved one inch from that ambition, not getting distracted along the way and actually getting so close to making it a reality.

If we get only approx £10m more, with your support this will all be real+live and Dozens will have entered into a mega Phase 3 (with planned international expansion) - these changes above constituting Phase 2 of course. Having been in a bank for long, I can also confidently state that while banks can and will catchup with UI and gimmicky features - this level of ground up design + engineering across segments and use cases will take them decades more as its much more systematically dependent on culture, hiring and retention.

Net net, if and when we can have the pleasure of announcing a conventional Series B funding round, our baby will get very very close to creating something long term world beating! All the fundamentals are in place, and that’s been our best achievement till date.

Back on Jobs, these lines from the video shared by Tim Cook today struck a chord…

“Everything around you that you call life was made up by people who were no smarter than you. You can change it…” (don’t miss the video! :grinning:)


I was not there. But I would like to answer that question here, if you don’t mind.

What do I want from my bank?

All the free basic stuff
Things like current account, card, statement, DD, SO, online banking, app and FSCS.


Do you really need a reason for this? Without all of those, it’s not a fully functioning bank. It’s also important to note that all the basic stuff should be free, because all major banks in UK offer these services for free, and there’s no reason for anyone to use a bank who charges for the basic features.

Wide range of financial products priced competitively and reward loyal customers
The products include but is not limited to: easy-access savings account, fixed rate saving account, mortgage, loan, credit card, (home/car/life/private health/income protection/etc.) insurance, GIA, ISA (Cash, S&S, LISA, Junior, …), SIPP and a wide range of investment products available in the investment accounts. Make sure the current account and investment accounts can hold foreign currencies.

More details

Each individual product doesn’t need to (and shouldn’t) be market leading, but holding a combination of many products with the same bank should reward the customer with an equivalent close to or matching the market leading individual product from other providers.
I know that you may argue that credit card is debt, and you don’t want to profit from that. But I would like to point out that the Section 75 protection makes CC an extremely useful tool. You only need to encourage your customers to repay it in full every month, and don’t charge an extortionate interest rate on it if a customer genuinely cannot afford to repay it in full due to unforeseeable events. Credit card is like fire, an extremely useful tool if used wisely, but can burn badly if misused.
I also want to add that I hate the fact that investment platforms have to be divided into two groups: flat fee (or capped fee) and percentage fee. A customer sometimes can’t use a good platform they like simply because they have too much or too little money to invest. Can you build a good investment platform where the user can open up to two accounts, one with flat fee + trading commission and another with percentage fee and no commission? This way a customer can stick with the same platform regardless how much money do they have , what’s the investment style or their financial goal. Transferring between the accounts can be restricted in a way that a customer can’t arbitrage the trading commissions away from the flat fee account.

Easy access to free financial behaviour coaching
Too many people don’t know enough about money, and they make bad decisions all the time. Free financial behaviour coaching backed by technology can make a huge difference if it can proactively and targeted engage with the customers who needs it the most, and minimises the fraction by automatically taking the user’s account details and their behaviour into consideration.
To give you an idea of the feature, here’s a few examples:

  • If a customer frequently checks their portfolio value during a period of volatile market activity, a targeted piece of information can be proactively delivered to that user telling them why they shouldn’t worry about the short-term price movements of their investments.
  • If a customer’s regular income is suddenly reduced or stopped and they started to use overdraft or credit card to cover their normal expenses which haven’t had any meaningful reduction since the income shock, another targeted message can be delivered to that user telling them how to budgeting and manage debt.
  • A customer may choose to actively engage with this tool (in the example, a chat bot) to find out what should they do with their unexpected big inheritance, it goes on like this:

Bot: How can I help you today?
User: I have received a big inheritance, but I don’t know what to do with it
Bot: Is it the £80,000 received on 6 October 2035 you are talking about?
User: Yes
Bot: I can see that your account ABC is overdrawn £300 and you have £1,200 balance on your credit card. Both of them are pretty expensive debts, and you should pay them off first. Does this sound good to you?
User: Yes
Bot: After paying off the above debts, you will have £78,500 left. That’s still a lot of money.
Bot: I can see that you only have £235 saved for emergencies, such as replacing a broken boiler or covering the short term living costs while you are looking for a new job if you suddenly lose your job. The amount of emergency savings you have is inadequate. Based on your most recent 3 years’ expenses, I would recommend you to save £9,000 for emergencies which is enough to cover 6 months of your regular expenses. Does this sound good to you?
User: …
Bot: …

How does such a bank make a profit? After all, a bank still needs to make money to pay for their cost of running the business. I think the most ethical way for such a bank to make a profit is responsible lending (mortgage, business loans and sometimes personal loans too) and fee and commission charged on investments. If the bank provides the insurance themselves (instead of white-labelling or act as a broker), they can also make a profit from the insurance business.

Alright, I’m done off-topicing. Please resume the discussion about the community update. If this post attracts too many off-topic replies, please feel free to move them to a separate thread.


I’ve thought a lot about this question.

For me, I think the answer is…

  1. Rules-based transfers - so when my salary hits I can automatically move certain amounts to external accounts / savings / investment etc

  2. A decent digital current account offer. Something like Monzo/Starling. I don’t need all the bells and whistles but an attractive well performing app - with sub accounts / pots.

  3. A view of my net worth. Open banking, but also connections to Zoopla for house prices, investment platforms - and manual accounts that are updated programmatically (e.g. I send £100 to savings, the manual balance for that savings account is incremented by £100 in my app).

That’s it. That’s what I need. I’d pay for it.


@Roman I fundamentally agree with you - having seen the sausage made inside a large bank, and now squeezing the costs on every pillar needed to run our wide range of services - that it is absolutely possible to run a high-culture, transparent, profitable banking business that relies only on responsible lending to students, homeowners and businesses only.

At c.£350k of running costs per month (ex new product development and marketing), we need only 25k paying businesses and 25k paying subscription customers, to make a bottomline profit. Nowhere near the millions. That’s why creating a culture over time that is so cost conscious is so important from the outset. Spending on marketing today for current account acquisition to potentially cross-sell later, just doesn’t make sense for us. And yet with most VCs we end up talking for longer about our competitors and their marketing budgets rather than our distinctive approach.

Here’s hoping we can make that fairer banking institution happen still.


Deal! Given funding, this will be a reality and we will hold you to it. :sunglasses:


I look forward to it! :tada::muscle: :dozens:

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Unfortunately, this often is not the best. The issue in an ISA wrapper is simpler, the time out of the market can cause the investor to miss a massive market gain. (often a good year’s stock return happens in just one month or less in that year) The issue in a GIA is more worrying. If the transfer for whatever reason took longer than 30 days, the investor will effectively be forced to crystallise the capital gains for tax purpose.

Yep agreed on that GIA use case - hence the case by case approach. Our numbers are small enough that we can give you bespoke love should we wind down. :slight_smile:

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