Dozens Invest - opaque fees mechanism

I’ve noticed the value shown in the app for Invest transactions doesn’t match the value shown in the contract note that gets emailed a few days after the transaction.

Taking a recent transaction of mine as an example:
Buy transaction shown in app: £1,200
Consideration amount shown in contract note: £1182
Difference: £18 (1.5% of £1,200)

When I queried this, I was told the difference represents 3 years of platform fees (3 x 0.5%) and goes into a fees balance. I assume fees will be charged from this balance when fees are due. This setting aside of a fees balance contribution happens even if you are on the 1 year Dozens Black trial.

Whilst I have encountered fees balances in other platforms as optional ways of paying fees, I don’t think I’ve ever encountered a mechanism where it is automatically funded every time a buy event takes place. But worse, it seems to me to be totally opaque; I don’t see any reference to this approach to fees in the T&Cs or Help articles, and I don’t see any way of viewing how much money is in my fees balance.

Are others aware this is how fees are handled in Dozens Invest?

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I thought they were taken by selling some of the investment. Holding as cash from date of deposit doesn’t sound great.

Ideally, I’d prefer all fees to be a monthly DD, like Vanguard, then you get complete transparency

I was expecting fees would be taken from general uninvested cash balance in the first instance, but I don’t necessarily think its a bad thing to have a dedicated fees balance/pot. What irritates me is the apparent lack of transparency.

I agree an option to pay fees from a current account would also be desirable.

Hi @o99 Once you purchase an investment, 1.5% of the invested amount is put aside for any future fees on the investment. The 1.5% for fees is equivalent to 3 years of our 0.5% platform fee, which is in line with the three year suggested minimum amount of time you hold your investment for, as seen in the ‘Potential for long-term growth’ section of the app and ‘How long should I invest for’ in the Invest section of our FAQs.

If you sell your investment and owe any outstanding fees they will be deducted from the cash portion upon sale of your investment, and any remaining funds held for fees will be returned to you.

I’ll pop the T&C’s below for you where it also states this:

"A. Platform fees

In relation to strategies Dozens charges an annual platform fee. Our fee is based on a percentage of the assets held with us in strategies. It includes all costs associated with the daily maintenance of your strategy and includes VAT where applicable. It also includes TPS’s custody and dealing fees. Please note that whilst we quote the fee as ‘annual’ it is taken monthly in arrears.

We will deduct the fee directly from the cash portion held in a strategy, so you do not have to set up a monthly payment to us. Fees will be debited on or before the 28th day of each following month and will be clearly marked on your statements."

You will only be charged fees on the strategies in your investment account, so if you added £5,000 to a strategy halfway through the month, you would only be charged for the time it was invested with us during that month.

Importantly, Dozens only makes money when you do. This means we will not charge a platform fee on days where a strategy value was less than the cash invested into the strategy, whether original purchase money or from monthly contributions.

I hope this helps clear up any confusion and do let me know if you have any further questions.

Thanks for response. However I don’t think the T&Cs (or any other document, in-app description, or Dozens web page I have seen) provides the information you have provided in the first paragraph of your post. That’s what I mean by lack of transparency.

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I’ve just sold an investment! This question goes to you and anyone else about

Having sold the investment the contract note states £1071 - when I made my initial investment I invested £1000 but only £976 went in as I understand you keep a proportion for fees.

I’ve done that maths on the fees and the amount left more or less equates to the app (£1091 including cash part) - so am I correct in saying the surplus cash isn’t involved in the contract notes - but would still be returned to my cash savings together with what was sold?

That thew me when I did the same - but it does make sense when you get your head around it as Robert explained at the time.

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Thank you - I do have another query. Once the sale settles - what then causes the 3-5 working day wait for it to reach your cash savings? I’m assuming the money will be in a Dozens account once it settles, and isn’t moving via BACS or the like?

I am using my profits for holiday spending money - no rush but Just interested :slight_smile:

@RobD

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FYI it arrived way before these timescales! A “grown” amount to be used to fund spending on a weekend away :slight_smile:

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Oh that’s great! Anywhere nice?

I think maybe we should start a new thread to post when people have reached their goals or have something to celebrate :slight_smile:

I’m glad this got to you in good time. It really shouldn’t take 3-5 days for this to be returned to cash savings after everything has settled. After talking with the team, we agree this might need a little review - so thanks for raising!

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Defo - it’s the app fulfilling its main purpose!

Berlin - it’s for a stag do so good to take the financial sting out :joy:

For sure - for instance with Freetrade you’re sale settles but you’re then moving the money via BACS whereas I assume this is all in house once it settles - as indeed I did get it same day!

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