We have reached the unfortunate but realistic decision that focusing Pi on its B2B business for revenue generating from white-labelling its formidable cloud-native core banking tech platform globally is the best use case for management and shareholders to focus on in the coming months (and years).
As such, comms have now started going out on this to our customer base, triggering an orderly wind-down process ending 31 August 2022, offering everyone 2 whole calendar months to transfer their funds out of their Dozens accounts.
For our shareholders and staunch supporters, we have also written a lengthy blog post (Dozens will be closing – Why it’s time to close shop on our inaugural app - Dozens ) on why this makes sense in the context of where the world is at this point in time. But long story short, if the last four years were not already enough to dampen our B2C ambitions, the direction of travel for cost of living, inflation and market sentiment over the next few months and potentially longer, means an eMoney+MiFID license based approach that doesn’t benefit from higher credit revenues (even responsible credit like lending to good businesses in need of medium-term cash) is particularly hard hit in this scenario.
As always, we have maintained our transparency with you at all times about the possibility of this scenario - and we did do the same internally with our employees as well. So while there are seven forced redundancies, no one was shocked with the result, and we are able to do more than our contractual minimums for all employees - with most able to overlap their Product or Ops roles with Pi1 needs. The Tech team in particular will be relatively unaffected as we double down on that bit of the business - speaking of which, am also happy to announce a Sep start date for Pi’s first ever CTO. (More on this soon.)
For now, just wanted to acknowledge this bittersweet milestone - bitter for obvious emotive reasons and hopefully relatively ‘sweet’ in a more rational way for some stakeholders looking to ensure Pi’s longer term success against a very negative market outlook.
I will be here staying personally accountable to you, and available for your questions.
Warm regards and thank you in advance for your continued support for a new Dozens whenever it does return (hopefully as a bank!).
Sorry to hear about the decision and for those affected within the business. What does this mean for crowd fund investors - is that in the Pi1 business or in the entity being wound down?
Nevermind… Just seen the update on seedrs confirming equity is in Pi1 so still operational as a business, thanks
Can you advise how investments in a S&S ISA should be moved?
What’s going to happen to this place, the forum?
The usual approach is to contact a new ISA provider to transfer it away from Dozens. You can transfer it to a cash ISA or a S&S ISA.
The information below are incorrect.
Note: AFAIK, Dozens doesn’t support in-specie transfer, which means you must transfer them as cash. You may re-purchase the same funds in a S&S ISA after the transfer is completed.
@AC and everyone at Team Pi - it is a sign of your commitment to producing top quality products that you active chose to change direction now, rather than be forced to later.
Your product in Dozens is something I truly believe has a place in the market. I am excited to see the progress of Pi and appreciate the openness and honesty you’ve always had with your customers, shareholders, and team.
If you have investments with Dozens, you should have received an email in the last 30 minutes or so.
The process for moving your investment is as follows:
- If your investment is in an ISA,
a) You can arrange a transfer of the investment. To do this, you will need to find another provider who offers the same fund and arrange with them to have it transferred.
b) You can sell the investment and transfer as cash still within an ISA. If your chosen provider does not offer the same investment options, you are able to sell this investment and and arrange a cash transfer still within an ISA wrapper.
Please note that Dozens cannot initiate a transfer for you, so we’d suggest you start the process with the other provider sooner rather than later.
c) Also, you could sell your investment and convert it to cash for your current account, but this option will cause it to lose its ISA status and may adversely impact your tax due on capital gains (based on your personal circumstances).
- If your investment is in a GIA,
a) You can sell the investment and convert to cash for your current account. As we don’t charge any exit fees, this would be your quickest option. We will place the funds directly into your current account a few days after the sale settles. From here you can make a payment into anothe r account.
b) You can arrange a transfer of the investment. To do this, you will need t ofind another provider who offers the same fund and arrange with them to have it transferred. When you’ve made a decision, please email email@example.com us know what you’d like to do and we can help get things moving for you.
Wait, does Dozens support in-specie transfer now? Last time I looked, it wasn’t supported.
Hi @Roman You’re correct, we haven’t as yet offer inward in-specie transfers. We are able to do outbound transfers, however.
Thanks for the attempt to take a different approach to the other fintechs, and for the openness and community engagement over the last few years.
It’s been interesting to see Dozen’s development both as a customer and community member.
Good luck as a B2B business
This is a real shame - but it seemed like it has been coming for a while now.
I hope a current account which disincentivises spending will come around again.
Having hoped this wouldn’t come about it is also not a surprise as, despite my own appreciation of the offer and opportunity, it was clearly a proposition which failed to gain market traction and evolution has been slow. The tantalisation of V2 kept us hoping but now its time to accept reality and consider the alternatives. At least one thing is clear, my requirement to utilise Curve as an interface to enable Garmin pay is no longer a requirement. My thoughts are with the staff who are affected, all my dealings with the team have been great, and best wishes to all.
Thanks everybody for your supportive words i’ve been sharing them with the team.
I’ll be keeping an eye on the forum, as always, over the weekend. If you do have any questions, please don’t hesitate to get in touch.
I’ve held off on posting because I wasn’t really sure what I could add to the conversation. But I think a few things are worth saying:
- Firstly, thank you @AC and team. This sort of thing is never easy, but you’ve handled this process with dignity and respect for your customers. Very well done.
- Secondly, this has to be the right decision. As much as I love Project Imagine and the team’s vision, I haven’t really been using Dozens. D2 (as I like to call it) looked exceptional, but on top of all the macroeconomic reasons you outline in the blog post, it’s also pretty difficult to dislodge customers from their existing providers. While Monzo is pretty slow at iterating on product (and their customer service still goes from sublime to the terrible) their product, especially Trends, is really difficult to beat.
- Thirdly, I am really v happy to see that you’re bringing on board a CTO. The tech is the big differentiator here, and having more in-house control over it is important and I’ve always been cloudy on what is run by PI and what is outsourced. I know the original plan was to rebalance towards the fin side of fintech - but the tech side is really table stakes right now. Monzo and Starling really differentiate because they’re tech-company banks that run the full stack (more or less) themselves. I’d like to see PI do similar. In fact, it kinda has to, I think.
- But having said all that, I like the hope for the return of Dozens in the future. 60k customers (even if none/few of them actively used it as their primary account) is not to be sniffed at. And there’s so much learning there. Let’s hope this is au revoir and not adieu.
- On a slightly boring, domestic point: what’s happening with this forum?
- There’s an offer in the Seedrs communication for an investors call with @AC. I’d be keen, but I feel pretty well informed, so I’m not sure it would be a good use of your time. Or if anyone is up for it, perhaps we could revive the
June meetup and buy a last round with our Dozens cards?
- Finally, for the love of everything π can we make the Seedrs emails with folks asking to sell their shares stop?!
One last offer: if there’s anything PI1 related to test / play with or otherwise comment on, I’d be keen. But, of course, not obligatory.
Thanks again, it’s been a lovely ride. Now, I think I can see our stop coming up in the distance…
Sorry to hear this news but hopefully Project Imagine manages to get traction on the B2B side.
I assume that Dozens will be issuing 2022/23 tax vouchers as part of winding down the B2C side.
Hi @gt94sss2 - do you mean CTC for 2022/23 tax year? This is a simple yes.
Or for any realised losses (Seedrs noises)?
Tackling this here anyway: the current and continued share price for issuance is 20% above Seedrs price at £25, and it’s been there for a couple of years now from memory. The company valuation for continued new investment is at or above that price. And the winding down of Dozens is to extend runway and increase free cash flow so same effect from a DCF perspective too.
I have offered to meet Seedrs shareholders at 5:30 PM today but here’s a copy of what we posted there earlier today.
We have initiated an orderly wind-down of the consumer licence only (not the company), so your shares in Project Imagine are unaffected. Currently, these shares are not sellable given that Seedrs has switched off secondary trading for these shares.
We have raised £5.75m in 2019 (post Seedrs crowfunding), £5.8m in 2020, £5.2m in 2021, and £2.9m in 2022. Of this, the most recent £8.1m has been at £25 share price, which is the current issuance price and is 20% above the share price from Seedrs crowdfund in 2019.
Dozens is the higher cost, relatively low revenue business line. We are switching this off to focus on lower cost and more revenue. This will have the effect of driving even a theoretical DCF share price up, not down.
Project Imagine is not under any obligation to buy back any previously issued equity capital. However, because we always focus on minority rights, we simply want to understand what is the split of people who want to sell, so that we can consider for secondary buyouts later in the year. However, because any potential offer to buyback will be for all, there is no need for further comments. If preferred, you can also reach me directly to express this on firstname.lastname@example.org .
PS: c.70 of our 2,100+ shareholders (who together through their nominee Seedrs own c.1% of the company) seem to want to sell. Apologise for the noise caused by the way Seedrs amended our original post and asked everyone to comment on the thread… but more than 2k of our retail shareholders and all of our institutional shareholders (who have invested in excess of £25m+ into Pi so far and continue to support it at £25) seem to be supportive of our hard decisions. I think we have done well - and we will continue to maintain transparent comms on all topics as always, hoping to convert the 70 as well.
Thank you as always @Peter - of course we will find some way to keep using this forum for discussions and user research. You will be glad to know that in addition to confirming Pi’s first CTO hire last week - we are all very excited! - I also signed off on ‘D2’ build today, and over the coming months this will be priority for our front-end team.
Ironically, we had to decide to switch off Dozens to get here but at least D2 is being built, should someone - globally - want it.
We will also keep in mind ways to keep a community of testers (including Pi employees and community members) for the new app in whatever way possible - through Auth Rep setups etc. Whenever we have something on this, we will keep you posted.
For now, its focus on executing the wind-down really cleanly and refocusing the business onto tech build and Pi1 sales completely. An f2f beer in the coming weeks sounds ideal.
Warm regards, and thanks everyone for your continued vocal support.